An Interview with Douglas Boyd, Jonathan Matovich, and John Hart of Flying Phobia Help, LLC.

As many of you know by now, I hate to fly. And I don’t say ‘hate’ for anything except flying (and bees). As you might have read here, there was a period of time in my life when I didn’t fly. I couldn’t get on the plane (and one time I actually was on the plane and got off of it as the cabin door was shutting…that was interesting). I just could not do it. I missed out on countless important events in my family and friends’ lives, and it was a REALLY hard time for me. HOWEVER, I’m happy to say I’m currently flying again. Do I like it? Hell no. I LOATHE it, and I drink heavily when I do it, but I do it. Throughout the years, I’ve taken a few ‘Fear of Flying’ courses, and they really have helped. Will my fear ever go away? I’m not sure, but it’s manageable, and that’s what matters. The course is led by Douglas Boyd, Ph.D., who is the Owner and Director of Flying Phobia Help, LLC. and tenured Professor at the University of Texas,  Jonathan Matovich, BS, who is Captain at a US airline and pilot recruiter, and John Hart, Ph.D., who is a Psychologist and Licensed Professional Counselor at Behavior Therapy of Houston. I, selfishly, LOVE this interview because I’ve been dealing with this phobia of mine for a while, and I’m thrilled to be able to share all of this insightful information with all of you. Even if you’re not a fearful flyer, I think you’ll really enjoy hearing what these three men have to say. Enjoy!

When did you first become interested in aviation?

DB: Since I was a child growing up in the 1960s/1970s. Aerospace/Apollo Program was always in the news and a dream for many boys my age, including myself.

JM: When I was a child.  My mother was a flight attendant for Delta Air lines, so I grew up around airplanes, traveling quite a bit.

When did you decide you wanted to get into psychology? What inspired you to do so? How long have you been practicing?

JH: I am not sure when the decision to go into psychology actually occurred except when I was accepted to graduate school. Initially, my interest was toward criminal justice; a field where many of my friends were had already started in the field. After a stint in correctional facility for inmates and then for juvenile offenders, I became more interested in mental health. My interest in anxiety disorders started when the first patient I was assigned at the psychiatric hospital had obsessive-compulsive disorder. I was aware of what the scientific basis of the treatment was, saw that it was not available, and then taught myself how to do cognitive-behavioral therapy. I am still practicing 30 years later.

Did you always know you wanted to be a pilot and work on/with airplanes?

DB: Yes, since childhood.

JM: Yes. Since I was a child.

How long have you been flying planes?

DB: 20 years flying. I did train as a scientist though and moved, belatedly, into aviation. Currently, I’m involved in two aspects of aviation (a) conducting aviation research with a focus on general aviation and, hence, publishing in peer-reviewed aeronautical journals (b) running the fear of flying program. Note, Jonathan is the professional pilot while I’m a general aviation pilot.

JM: 22 years.  I took my first lesson when I was 16.  I started flying commercially after college.  I have been in commercial aviation, as an instructor and airline pilot for 13 years.

What’s your favorite part about your job? Most rewarding?

DB: Intense gratification when we open up the world to folks who have not flown in years. I also get a very good feeling when getting a research article published in the aeronautical field.

JM: I love hearing about people taking their first flight.  Being a part of helping someone overcome a debilitating, lifelong fear is a great feeling!

JH: Not surprisingly, seeing people get better is my favorite part of the job. After that I enjoy doing clinical research and contributing to the overall body of scientific knowledge in the treatment of anxiety related disorders. Equally important and enjoyable is the community advocacy work that I do.

Most challenging?

DB: Fear of flying is very prevalent, yet few seek therapy. Getting anxious fliers to participate in the program represents one of the greatest hurdles since, for most folks, flying is discretionary. Alas, sometimes folks come to us too late e.g. someone in the family has passed away and they couldn’t attend a funeral (because they couldn’t fly).

JM: Similar to Douglas.  The hardest part is getting someone to take that first step.

In your experience, what’s the most common reason someone is scared of flying? Turbulence? Claustrophobia? Lack of Control?.

DB and JM: About 70% of folks think the aircraft will be involved in a mishap. On the other hand about 20-25%, the fear of flying is due to an anxiety condition (e.g. claustrophobia, acrophobia with or without agoraphobia etc.). About 5-10% have feet in both “camps.” These aren’t just our observations. Prior fear of flying research literature has revealed similar data.

JH: People generally are afraid to fly for several reasons besides the fear of crashing. Many people have “embedded” fears of claustrophobia, fear of heights, struggling with control, fear of crowded places. Many have history of panic attacks. Many people have a high anxiety sensitivity, a temperament that is vulnerable to problems with anxiety. A number of people have had bad experiences with a plane flight, while others have heard about incidents from the media. How a fear of flying develops for many people can be unknown.

Why should someone NOT be scared of turbulence?  

DB and JM: Transport-category aircraft (i.e. airplanes used for scheduled flights with paying passengers) undergo a wing-stress test (which has to be passed) as part of the certification process by the overseeing aviation authority (FAA in the USA). This involves flexing the wing 25 feet above the horizontal which equates to 150% of the MOST extreme forces the airplane would ever be expected to encounter. Also, aircraft used for paid passenger transportation must be equipped with (working) weather radar which allows the crew to circumvent thunderstorms which are strong “generators” of turbulence. Finally, the proof of the pudding is in the eating- I know of no transport-category aircraft which has been felled by weather-associated turbulence since 1967!

What are some easy tactics a fearful flyer can easily do prior to the flight or while on the flight to ease them?

JH: Regarding some easy tactics for the fear of flying is to be aware of facing one’s anxiety is difficult. The first principle is to encourage oneself that it is okay to be anxious. All too often people struggle with anxiety because they are fighting a battle with ridding themselves of anxious feelings and states. This sets them up for failure. As a result, people are often overly embarrassed or self-critical when they are anxious flying or even thinking of flying. Another important principle is to identify the value of flying and keeping that value in mind when one is developing the willingness to be anxious to be able to travel for family, leisure, interest, work, emergency, etc.

This might come off ‘strange’ and maybe a bit obnoxious, BUT it’s worth the question – when I sit in first class, I’m not as fearful at all – why is that? It’s not like there is less turbulence up there, and I know it’s all psychological and totally in my head, but why is that? Why do I feel better in first class (aside from the fact that you get a drink prior to take off !) ? And, along those same lines, lately when I fly, I visit the cockpit prior to the flight to talk to the pilots, which totally eases me – why is that? 

JH: As to why you would be less anxious in first class is interesting. It would be hard to answer definitively. Usually most fearful fliers, who are able to fly, have a set of “safety behaviors” that give them (sometimes magically) reassurance that everything is okay. The list of safety behaviors is long, but some of the behaviors may include watching the flight attendants or someone perceived to be regular professional travelers to monitor their reactions, sitting away from family or colleagues, keeping the window screen up or down, or having a drink or using medication. Some people won’t take a medication or have a drink because want to stay prepared for emergency. Talking to the pilot or the crew member is a common one. Other things about first class might be the space between seats and perhaps quicker access to escape. Ultimately there is nothing wrong with safety behaviors if they get people where they want to go. However, these behaviors may maintain one’s ability to effectively process anxiety and learning how to be anxious.

What’s your favorite place you’ve ever traveled to and why?

DB: As passenger – Dominica in the Caribbean. Beautiful island (not tourist-infested) and the flight in on American Eagle is a lot of fun.

JM: England.  I love history and England has so much of it!  Old in the U.S. is 100 years.  Old in England is 1000 years.

I know, because I’ve taken the FOF course and been in the simulator, that my idea of ‘severe’ turbulence is actually, in reality, typically mild – so have you ever experienced severe turbulence on a flight? I imagine so. How often does ‘severe’ turbulence take place? And, again, why is it not something to be concerned with aside from it being an uncomfortable feeling?

DB and JM: There are definitions/criteria which we adhere to as pilots, light, moderate or severe. HOWEVER, this report is entirely dependent on aircraft size. So for example turbulence reported as light by a 737 (~150 seats) might be graded as moderate by an in-trail (following) smaller Embraer 145 (~45 seats).

Personally, I (Douglas) have never experienced severe turbulence either as a pilot or a passenger. The worst I recall was as a passenger in a 737 but that would probably have been graded  as “moderate” from a passenger perspective (IATA criteria- liquids splashing out of cups and definite strain against seat belt).

“Severe” turbulence usually makes it into the media as everyone (and their brother) have their Iphone cameras and there might be injuries by passengers not buckeld in!! I’’m guessing that the frequency of severe turbulence is <10 times per year in the USA –not much, thinking of the millions of flights annually in this country.

In addition to the reasons provided in your prior question (why should someone NOT be scared of turbulence) again, transport-category aircraft are designed to be intrinsically stable in flight (what’s referred to as positive static/dynamic stability). Thus, if the nose pitches down or a wing drops in turbulence, the design features (to get technical-wing dihedral and sweepback) facilitate self-righting of the aircraft.

Finally, a concern commonly expressed by fearful fliers is that an enroute aircraft dropping in turbulence (with a loss in altitude) may continue falling eventually making a hole in the ground. Here’s why not. As you know, lift is created by air moving across the wings and there is NO meteorological phenomenon in which an aircraft flies through a vacuum. I tell students that Moses parted the Red Sea but was never interested in parting the atmosphere!

What advice/words of wisdom would you give to a fearful flyer? I’m sure you have plenty (I know you have plenty!), but if you can just name the very best or your favorite…

DB and JM: We think Dr. Hart’s advice to aviophobes is what we most like. While there is infinitesimal chance of being involved in a mishap, there’s close to 100% chance one will be anxious. Through repeated exposure (i.e. flying), one will learn to ride with (accept) the anxiety, develop a tolerance to the associated distress and/or de-sensitize (habituate) to the flight environment. Also, it is very important to fly and fly OFTEN. Finally, always focus on the “prize” i.e. what flying will allow YOU to do whether it for family, fun, career etc.

JH: Another piece of advice is to take someone along who will remind you that it is okay to be anxious. Well intentioned support that aims to help “get” that there is no reason to be anxious often makes people more anxious and not infrequently angry; remembering that it takes courage to do something of value while being anxious.

Thanks so much, Douglas, Jonathan, and Dr. Hart! 

Follow Flying Phobia on Facebook.

Read past interviews here.

If you or someone you know might be a good fit for this series, reach out to me. I’d love to hear from you!